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FROM: THE CHEMIST
So I guess this holds true to the fact that different compounds work differently for different people.
So hopefully this addresses the first part of the question.......................................
Next Part:
Q: I was of the understanding that poppers that contained Isobutyl and Butyl Nitrites were no longer available. If they are, where can I get them?
A: Poppers are illegal, nothing else can be said about that, This is why they are marketed as nail polish remover, room Aroma, Head cleaner, Etc.
Now with that being said, the use of Isobutyl and Butyl Nitrite in these other products which aren't poppers (Wink, Wink) is not illegal by any means, as long as they are not marketed for human consumption. The reason peope belive that butyl and isobutyl are controlled is because the FEDS state them in the consumer product ban directly....
Check Here to see
http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/regsumbutylnitrite.pdf
If you take a look at this part it might shed some light on the fact that they only product that is banned is Amyl Nitrite because the FDA Laws go above and beyond this statement....
Are any products exempt from the bans?
Yes. The purpose of the bans is to prevent the manufacture and sale of products that may be inhaled or introduced into the human body to produce euphoric or physical effects. Products that contain any of the nitrites listed above are not banned if the products are produced for any other commercial purpose or for any purpose approved under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act
The reason you don't see them being used is simple economics as I said before, Isobutyl and Butyl Nitrite are hard to get because they cost a tad bit more to make and it is harder for just any old person to get the ingredients to make them. Butyl and Isobutyl alcohol are not something you can just pick up at the pharmacy like Isopropyl Alcohol. Plus look at it this way.. If you are a business and you can make a bottle of Isopropyl Nitrite for 4 dollars for example and a bottle of isobutyl Nitrite for 5.50 what are you normally going to do? Probably make the cheaper one becuase it means a dollar fifty more in your pocket. They dont care that it dosent work as well.....
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Hope this helps sort some things out guys! Anymore questions? Please leave in the comments!
Thanks!
Popperdude
24 comments:
I would love to know if anyone has an old bottle they saved prior to the "shut down" in Aug 2010, if so what is listed as the ingredient?
I have been using PoppersExpress and SkyHi, both are using Isopropyl Nitrate and, when first fresh seem ok, but just don't have the same effect I was getting from my supplies I use to get at Fort Troff. Had I known there were so many alternatives I would have saved a bottle so I knew what to look for! This is so disappointing, hoping for a return of the good ol' days soon!
Anyone know why Rush-poppers.us cannot ship to Ohio and Texas? Have states started passing laws against nitrates?
But what legal products contain butyl nitrates?
None that I can find since the PWD shut-down.
P.S. Anonymous: Just because a label lists a certain chemical ingredient doesn't mean that's what's really in the bottle -- especially in the world of poppers where counterfeits ABOUND.
gavin has a point -
Anon - I'd send an email to their customer service asking why they cannot send to those states. I unfortunately do not know off hand why they can't....?
I don't agree with the chemist that ISOamyl is not regulated in USA.
United States Code 2057b was specifically introduced to ban ALL alkyl nitrites (a chemical term which includes ISOamyl) in addition to the butyl nitrites which had already been specicially banned by code 2057a.
My understanding is that this explains why poppers manufacturers turned to CYCLOPENTYL nitrite for the USA market, as they claim that the CYCLOHEXYL group does not strictly constitute an "alkyl" group and is therefore exempt from 2057b.
On a separate note, a more recent investigation by the American Society of Trace Evidence Examiners revealed that 13 brands of poppers they tested typically did NOT actually contain what they said on the label, but did contain the banned butyl nitrite. Perhaps that was what triggered the recent fuss that ultimately led to the demise of PWD?
Dear Anon,
I believe you are misinformed alkyl nitrites are in fact considered banned hazardous substances by code 2057b this is why since 1988 or something like that there has been no one selling products marketed as poppers containing the compounds listed as banned products. This is why manufactures turned to compounds such as CYCLOPENTYL and CYCLOHEXYL Nitrites… Using these products they could still legally market them as Poppers and not have to market them as cleaners or what ever else they may be called…..
But you have also over looked the fact that…..
This act that was put into effect, in the USA by Congress through the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988.Code 2057a & Code 2057b makes specific exemptions for alkyl nitrites for commercial purposes.
The term commercial purpose is defined to mean any use other than for the production of consumer products containing volatile alkyl nitrites meant for inhaling or otherwise introducing volatile alkyl nitrites into the human body for euphoric or physical effects
SEE HERE Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988 (Public Law 1QO-690,section 2404) (15 U.S.C. 2d57a(e)(2)).
This is specifically why you don’t see bottles saying poppers, they are Aromas, Nail Polish Remover, cleaners, etc, etc…Poppers are illegal, and cleaners are not!
Dear anon,
I understand the exemptions available to the legal codes and why the products can never be sold as having any medical effects (otherwise they immediately become misbranded medicines).
However, I believe that the applicability of the exemption to "head cleaners" and suchlike is very debatable and this is why certain manufacturers have recently turned to patented "nail Polish Remover" description instead, attempting to shift the product into the realm of FDC rules rather than CPSC (and thereby sidestepping the ban).
Whether this "holds water", time will tell.
- Steve (UK)
Yes this is exactly how it is, just because the products are technically legal, it dose not really mean the GOV cant put pressure on manufactures to stop producing these products. Just because they are called Nail Polish remover, does not mean they are 100% good and ok. This is still a very Grey area of legality and some practices may be considered questionable
Well the U.S. law code makes exemptions for both butyl and alkyl nitrates.
They may be sold for "any commercial purpose other than for the production of consumer products containing butyl nitrite that may be used for inhaling or otherwise introducing butyl nitrite into the human body for euphoric or physical effects."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode15/usc_sec_15_00002057---a000-.html
So this explains why Joe Miller and others have always used "Video Head Cleaner" or now "Nail Polish Remover" as the official purpose for these products and marketing.
It doesn't explain how the Feds could have convicted Joe Miller and PWD. He could have gone to court and say all his chemicals were legal and if the consumer was abusing them as a drug, than it was the consumer's fault.
UNLESS Miller was using some other chemical that is illegal for ANY use, without exemptions.
Why would Miller go down without a court fight if he was only using butyl or alkyl nitrates?
Did the Feds have evidence that he was marketing them as poppers?
Was he using some chemical totally banned?
Did he feel extremely guilty about the deaths of some gay customers combining it with Viagra?
Was he just too emotionally weak for a public battle in court?
Why would he give up his life and his vast fortune if he didn't break the laws mentioned above and he could use the defense he's always used?
How can we find out what chemicals were REALLY in the old PWD bottles, and who sells them today?
We could have a chemist test an old bottle of PWD stuff (prior to August 2010).
Or we could use the Freedom of Information Act to find out what the Feds had on Joe Miller.
I'm pretty sure if there was a raid, whatever law enforcement agency conducted it would have to disclose the information publicly, as well the judge who issued the search warrant. The judge would have a copy of all the law enforcement's accusations.
And somebody SHOULD investigate this if Joe Miller wasn't truly breaking the law and the authorities and/or media have just ignored his whole suicide and plant closure.
@Gavin- all good questions and if you do some digging and searching here you'll find I asked the same questions and did a formal inquiry about the shutdown through the Freedom of Information Act. Search for it and you should find many answers.
Thanks
Popperdude
In the study mentioned, the contents of all the bottles tested, no matter what the label said, was isobutyl nitrite, the same stuff used by PWD and other packagers for decades, and the best of all the nitrites, even better than the holy grail "amyl". Amyl breaks down much faster than isobutyl, but the effect is the same. If any of you have experienced cyclo, then you certainly remember it. Crap effect and burns you skin with repeated use. They are selling isopentyl in the UK these days, and everyone hates it. Long story short, the best option, just as it has been for decades, is highly pure isobutyl nitrites. A lot of the stuff that came out last fall and early this year was isobutyl, but not a highly pure version. That is why we all experienced some "crap" over the past months. I know of at least one online retailer that is now buying from a different supplier and sending out quality stuff. Maybe not original PWD quality, but pretty darn close. The new PWD is packaged by the plant that shipped all the crap the past months, so I would avoid it. The legacy of PWD is dead, unless you can find some of the few remaining original bottles. There are some still out there.
Could someone please reccomend a good online retailer for Iron Horse and Jungle Juice? I used Picture Brite the last time and it seemed okay, but now their bottles are smaller, so I'm not sure what to think.
Thanks!
jw
..Where can I find the good stuff?......
where can i buy the good stuff in europe onlineshop???.......................
A little late on this, but I know that one can use eBay to get everything it takes to make isobutyl nitrite, but I would suggest having a good deal of chemistry knowledge in order to do that. You can probably fuck shit up pretty easily. However, since this chemical can be easily made one can rely on those who stay in business to help those of us that don't want to take the time to make isobutyl nitrite.
That's right...
You can just buy it straight up.
http://www.scientificlabs.co.uk/product/327190-100ML
There places in the US as well.
Now, Rush contained pure isobutyl nitrite, right?
According to this it contains 95% of isobutyl nitrite.
http://unsafeproducts.eu/2006/12/15/liquid-incense/
That's the same as the link posted above.
I have made isopropyl nitrite from 91% rubbing alcohol and concentrated sulfuric acid, many times. It has one very dangerous side effect that the other nitrites don't seem to have, at least for me. It lowers blood pressure quickly and keeps it low for hours. Extreme tiredness and blue nails are also symptoms. It has taken me hours to feel like walking again. Today, I tried some poppers I had purchased online from Dave at USPopShop. After 15 minutes of sporatic inhaling, I could barely move and had to lower my head below my heart to keep from passing out. I was not on any other drugs or Viagra. My nails turned blue and my neck was so fatigued I could barely lift my head. I have only experienced these extreme symptoms with nitrites made from rubbing alcohol.
Ken
Also, since PWD went under, I have purchased a variety of poppers OTC and they have all been highly acidic, as are my homemade isoproply nitrites. I tested Jungle Juice pre-PWD shutdown and it was a neutral pH. These new acidic poppers are much more irritating to the throat and bronchs. Apparently, not much effort is being made to remove the acid that is required to make them.
If there is anyone out there who wishes to purchase ISOBUTYL NIRITE that is >98.5% pure and who resides in the UK email bestpoppers@hotmail.co.uk
I have had poppers from this guy and they are PWD quality for sure. He doesn't ship to the US though only within the EU...
Could some body buy for me from :
http://www.scientificlabs.co.uk/product/327190-100ML
I placed an order for this product but they would not ship it to a home address and they asked me what i intended to use it for, when i didnt reply to the email they canceled my order! hope this helps
Check it out, you can order a 200 liter/170kg drum worth of the stuff! :D
http://www.toocle.com/ChinaSuppliers/18513/Isobutyl-nitrite-338186.html
Interesting it says it is a raw material for new cancer drugs.
For several months I have been making homemade poppers from isobutyl alcohol. Since I don't know the exact chemical proportions and ideal temps, I can't get consistent results. Sometimes, I get a brew that smells OK(isn't irritating to the throat, and gives a pleasant rush. Other times, I get disappointing results. Not sure what all the traits are of a pure product. In any case, my small batches don't last long, maybe an hour or two at most. Then they lose effect. And of course they are highly acidic since I use sulfuric acid to make them.
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